Support for j1850 VPW/PWM?

General Discussion
#115

All I can tell you is that it has worked with anything I have tested it with so far. Make sure both of your grounds on the port are connected together to a ground on the PCM. Make sure you have 12 volts going to the PCM and DLC port and make sure you have one of the data lines connected between the two. I wouldn’t hook up both of the PCM lines as it might confuse the PCM since generally it appears one is to connect directly to the BCM and the other connects directly to whatever else is in the driveline assuming your PCM has 2 datalines.

I haven’t taken it out to my truck to test which would be more in line with your PCM but should work fine. Others have tested it and it works well so I am not sure what to tell you?

If you have an ODBII Y cable try using that to connect both your ELM and your M2 and see what you see. You may find it chats just fine. The ELM with software may be giving the proper wake up command to get a response.

#116

Got it! Thanks for sticking with me on this. I made a noob mistake where I only had OBD pin 4 (chassis) grounded, but needed to ground pin 5 (signal) as well, and then it started working. I’m guessing a lot of adapters tie 4+5 together (for better or worse), which masked the issue I was having. It’s getting good responses back, about 25ms “round trip” for a mode 01 PID request/response.

#117

Glad to have helped. Yes for benchtop work the DLC should have both grounds connected together. Some adapters only use one ground and ignore the other and other configurations. But you can’t go wrong if you tie them together for a benchtop setup.

#118

Pin 4 would be considered a “Chassie” type of ground. Pin 5 would be considered a “Signal or Data” ground directly from the Pcm. In a lot of cases pin 4 alone will work but some vehicles use a discrete grounding method on the data port connector where pin 4 and 16 are designed to feed the device power and pin 5 is intended to be used as the ground for data communication.

There is also nothing wrong with connecting pin 4 and 5 together. Glad you got it working.

#119

Hello dmaxben,
I am messing around with the HUD and DIC in my '08 Vette - got some things to work, others not.
I do not have onstar to reverse engineer and Us-Chevys are hard to come by in this part of the world ^^
Could you share some of the details of the DIC communication? PM me if you want!
Regards,
Funky Luke

#120

Hi Funky Luke! I am just starting to investigate hacking the HUD in my '08 Cadillac XLR which is based on the 'Vette. Any (an all) information you could share with me would be SO appreciated. What I eventually want to do is send messages like the ones displayed when you change XM stations. My hope is to bridge between the iDataLink Maestro interface on an aftermarket radio and my existing HUD. I’m planning to get a HUD to play with on the bench rather than risk bricking the car. Since you have some things working, I’d really like to get a head start with your progress.

Bob

J1850 VPW - How to begin
#121

Hello MPRCTCL,
Nice to hear that somebody else is on this.
What I got is all the codes needed to display the audio screens on the HUD - FM, AM, XM, CD, DAB etc. including the frequencies.
What I haven’t figured out as of now is the nav screens. I got an original NAV unit on the bench and a bus trace of some nav turn instructions on the hud. But i’m not yet able to reproduce them. I used a ELM327 unit for my original research but switched to the macchina since the GM J1850 implementation does use non-standard (too long) frames that can not be sent with standard interfaces.
I will try to put something together on gdocs to share the details.

#122

Outstanding! Looking forward to hearing more.

#123

Does anyone have an update with regards to the J1850 PWM protocol. I have 2 ford ranger electric vehicles from 1998 and 1999 and they communicate on this bus. It would be nice to be able to use the macchina to decode and read the bus communciations. And one day simulate the modules that are no longer available.

#124

I was actually working on my own J1850 VPW implementation with my '99 Suburban, but am in the process of finding a PWM vehicle to use to consolidate the two into one library. I haven’t done any PWM work yet but I do have a lot of the SAE documents for the implementation, including the full 4 page writeup on the protocols. If I get any work done on the PWM side, I’ll let you know.

Edit: side note; I was considering using my Tech2 to possibly add some support for the extended PIDs I can access. That said, as far as I know the PIDs are/can be different for each different vehicle or model year. I’ll see once I get to that point. As of now I’ve been having trouble communicating with my trucks’ PCM due to some ground issues that I’m still hunting down. (darn project vehicles!)

#125

I would be willing to do any testing. I can test with a macchina, but I also have an ELM327 and lists of commands and responces on the bus, and a ford star NGS tester for the ranger EV, which communicates to the modules.

#126

Is your VPW code non blocking?

The current library is a blocking library which needs to be updated. If you have a non-blocking library I would be interested in seeing it. I Hope to be able to get back to working on the new firmware that I started a couple months ago once my current semester is done and I get back from vacation.

I also have a Lab that I can use to test the PWM stuff to and integrate it but that will be secondary to my getting new software up and running that will support CAN/VPW. My lab can do pretty much all of the protocols the M2 is capable of so I should be able to get it working with all the protocols once I have time to work on it.

Rodney

#127

It’s been a while since I did any work on it, but I believe it’s blocking currently. I was looking into a non-blocking context but I haven’t gotten one of my part-truck PCMs up and running on a bench to do all the testing with the limited time before I go back to work. A collaboration doesn’t sound like a bad idea, as I’d certainly benefit from it with my project truck being a VPW PCM. :slight_smile:

#128

I have an '03 avalanche that uses the VPW and a 2012 CTS which uses CANBUS.

I also have the brain and a couple other modules mounted on a board from an '02 Bravada which should be the same as your 99 and I have a simulation board that has all of the protocols on it for testing and developing. I just haven’t had a chance to do much with it as I have had to deal with other stuff going on.

To make the VPW code should be pretty straight forward but I need to do a little more reading on the codebase to understand how Colin actually implemented the CANBUS stuff using the mailboxes. Basically to make it non blocking you take advantage of the fact any pin can throw an interrupt. You make an interrupt handler that reads in the stuff from the port then when the mail box is full you send it and start filling the next one. The normal code just watches for a mailbox to be ready to read and does so. To send the main code puts the send information into a mail box and marks it as send and sends it. So really the read part is the only part that needs to be interrupt driven. I just haven’t, as I already said, read Collins’ code well enough to understand how they are used.

#129

I was reading up on some of the Arduino non-blocking methods, but I didn’t think about actually checking out the M2 code. As soon as I can I’ll look it over and see if I can get something started. I like the idea you mentioned about creating a more modular library where protocols can be added like plugins, as well.

Also, I’m going to be ripping the PCM and other modules from one of my part trucks, either a '96 or '99 Tahoe (or both) to set up a bench testing method in the near future whenever I strip the trucks. That only offers me VPW testing but it helps for my plans of making an information display for my Suburban.

#130

If you are pulling modules I would suggest at a minimum the PCM and the BCM. You can communicate with them then via a standard ODBII program if you need to and track the communications with your M2. Thats how I tested that it worked in the first place. I actually have a PCM, BCM and cluster from a 2001 Trailblazer mounted on a board. The PCM case is pulled off because I wanted to look in it for another project.

Rodney

#131

Hi FunkyLuke. I just got my hardware and started experimenting with it in the car. I’m a little nervous that I’ll somehow brick it, but so far I’m just sniffing and not trying to send any messages. I’m using the J1850_M2_v1.ino above with some success. Is that what you used? Anyway, for my first experiment, I am trying to capture the message from the radio to the amplifier that turns the DSP on and off. I want to upgrade the stereo, but don’t want to lose the DSP functions that reside in the amplifier. That said, I think I’ve narrowed it down to a couple messages, but wondered if you (or anyone else reading) might confirm or discredit that the amplifier is $94 and the radio is $80? I kind of deduced that, but if anyone knows more or sees a flaw in my process, I’d love to hear it. Also, were you able to get a google doc around for the HUD stuff you’ve already sorted out?

RX:	8	FF	81	3	69			
RX:	8	FF	99	3	87			
RX:	28	FF	40	6	6	8	0A	C5
RX:	8	FF	A6	3	E5			
RX:	8	FF	C1	3	83			
RX:	8	FF	18	3	2			
RX:	8	FF	82	3	BD			
RX:	8	FF	89	3	33			
RX:	8	FF	B1	3	A8			
**RX:	8A	94	80	24	80	5	7E	0B**
RX:	8	FF	80	3	25			
RX:	8	FF	A4	3	7D			
RX:	8	FF	97	3	68			
RX:	8	FF	60	3	73			
RX:	8	FF	A1	3	1C			
RX:	8	FF	81	3	69			
**RX:	8A	94	80	A4	80	5	7E	3E**
RX:	8	FF	99	3	87			
RX:	28	FF	40	6	6	8	0A	C5
RX:	8	FF	A0	3	50			
RX:	8	FF	40	3	6			
RX:	8	FF	A6	3	E5			
RX:	8	FF	82	3	BD			
RX:	8	FF	89	3	33			
RX:	8	FF	B1	3	A8			
RX:	8	FF	80	3	25			
RX:	8	FF	A4	3	7D			
RX:	8	FF	97	3	68			
RX:	8	FF	60	3	73			
RX:	8	FF	A1	3	1C			
RX:	8	FF	81	3	69			
RX:	8	FF	99	3	87			
RX:	28	FF	40	6	6	8	0A	C5
RX:	8	FF	C1	3	83
#132

I have some information about the GM VPW protocol and how it works…
I am thinking about writing it up in a wiki page onsite for people to look at but haven’t done that yet. I did actually post this on another forum I am on.

Here is a tidbit to help you out…

Physical Node Addresses:
ID Module

$00-$1F Powertrain controllers
$00-$0F Integration/Manufacturer Expansion
$10-$17 Engine controllers
$18-$1F Transmission controllers
$20-$3F Chassis controllers
$20-$27 Integration/Manufacturer Expansion
$28-$2F Brake controllers
$30-$37 Sterring controllers
$38-$3F Suspension controllers
$40-$C7 Body controllers
$40-$57 Integration/Manufacturer Expansion
$48-$5F Restraints
$60-$6F Driver information/Diplays
$70-$7F Lighting
$80-$8F Enterntainment
$90-$97 Personal communications
$98-$9F Climate control (HVAC)
$A0-$BF Convenience (doos, Seats, Windows, etc.)
$C0-$C7 Security
$C8-$CB Electric Vehicle Energy Transfer System (EV-ETS)
$C8 Utility connection services
$C9 AC to AC conversion
$CA AC to DC conversion
$CB Energy storage management
$CC-$CF Future expansion
$D0-$EF Manufacturer specific
$F0-$FD Off-Board Testers/Diagnostic scan tools
$FE All nodes
$FF Null node

Please note that you are not likely to brick anything. You may lock up modules but simply pulling the battery connection should be sufficient.
It might be a good idea to pull the AirBag fuse however just in case… I have not heard of anyone poping an air bag when playing around but it is not impossible.

If there is a need I can write a page in the Wiki That explains how this all works. And programming a Module is much more difficult and not something you are going to do accidentally.

Rodney

#133

Thanks Rodney.

I was overly-cautious because it’s a super-limited production car that I can’t easily get modules for, but I will calm down given your comment about the effort to program modules. I’ve made a ton of progress after writing a little code. I have a simple program that only echos commands originating from the radio. Any more data you have is definitely welcome. I’ve narrowed it down to a few addresses that seem to be affected. My ultimate goals are to manipulate the amplifier (which I have surmised to be $94 and the HUD. I want to be able to send channel info to the HUD (like FM or XM does in the OEM system). It appears that the HUD may be $A5, $EB or both, but the encoding of the message still eludes me. Since you may have selected any frequency, that implies that the radio has to be explicitly sending text to the HUD in some format.

When I change from one FM preset to another (FM 98.3), I get this traffic:

From	RADIO	to	94	Payload	=	19	80	E0	6C	7E	7E	5D	10	00
														
From	RADIO	to	A5	Payload	=	98	80	03	D7	14	88	12	08	00
														
From	RADIO	to	EB	Payload	=	0B	0A	15	00	00	15	09	08	00

$94 seems to be the EQ setting to the amplifier (the car lets you save your EQ independently for each channel) and I assume the other two messages relate to the HUD and ??.

I’m not asking you to do all the work for me, but if you see something familiar or can point me in a direction, I would really appreciate it!

Bob

#134

Are you sure your Amplifier is a datalink controlled amplifier?
For instance, I have a 2003 GM truck. This truck the amplifier is NOT datalink controlled but the rear audio system is… The XM Radio is also a separate module that chats via Datalink.

If I were to get the upgraded radio from an Escalade however that system uses a datalink controlled Amplifier and a different head unit.

I have not tested the theory but since the Xm Radio and Rear Audio are connected to the radio I don’t believe they are directly connected to the main databus but on their own Databus shared on the output side of the radio. They can be accessed via a Tech2 so it is possible they are connected to the main bus in my case. But Also supported are steering wheel controls. With steering wheel controls the BCM gets an electrical signal from the steering wheel which it converts to whatver code it needs and then sends out code to the radio. The radio also gets the RAP (radio power on) signal, speed signal and others from the trucks main bus and deals with them as it needs.
I don’t recall seeing what type of car you are dealing with… I have the shop manual for all GM’s up through 2009 model year that I can look in and get some information if you are dealing with a GM. Some of the older vehicles may not be as well shown. Such as my '94 Caprice… It doesn’t really show anything for that but I have printed copies of those manuals anyhow I don’t thing GM used electronic copies until later.

Rodney